I know very well that it's been an entire week since I've last written a post. A little fame and fortune and it's all gone to my head. Okay, that's totally a joke. But there is some room for concern today on 52 Prayers. I am truly struggling because I'm having a hard time deciding whether or not I should get baptized into a certain church.
Many times in the past few months I find myself thinking something, or wanting to do something or go in some direction and wonder, "Does God want this for me? Or is this Jess talking?" And I desperately wish I knew how to make decisions based on God's desire but on many of these topics He's silent in Scripture. I mean, I dont see anywhere in the book of John "Jessica, this denomination is right for you" so it's hard to decipher what He wants from me.
This brings me to an important question: How does one discern the Spirits leading as opposed to their own hearts desire?
When making a decision to take a certain job, or join a certain church, it doesn't always seem as simple to me as saying a little prayer and trusting God. Sure, that's what I think I'm supposed to do, but I do it, and then....nada. Instead, I'm left dreaming about the decision, thinking about it all day long, constantly calling out for guidance from the Holy Spirit only to go back and forth like the waves of the sea every hour on the hour thinking something different. Is that normal? I guess I kinda hoped God was a bit more direct.
Do some people get that obvious answer from God, when they're looking for His guidance? Because I can say without a shadow of a doubt; I want the answer. I want to know whether I should join this church.
Okay 52 Prayers, I'm going to shoot it to you straight. I ask that no one give me their opinions, I don't want the opinions of men today. I only want your prayers. I ask that you please, please, please give me a prayer today for a very important decision in my life. I am thinking of joining the Seventh Day Adventist church. I feel in my heart that they are obedient Christians with an overwhelming love for Christ. They love the Bible. They love eachother. And I love them. Now, some of their doctrine is a bit different from mainline Protestant. Also, I've always struggled with not wanting to be "outside the box" in life. I want to be what other people define as normal. You know, white, blond hair, Old Navy clothes with 2.5 kids and a mid-level career in sales. All-american., I guess. Well, this is not the picture of an Adventist, but I welcome that these days. They're a quirky bunch. They don't drink. They don't smoke. They eat tofu and stuff. Ha! But they do it all out of love for the sacrifice made on the cross. They do it all to be holy because God is holy so they desire to glorify Him in all they do. They are God's children and I see that every time I walk into their church. Oh, and I totally believe the Sabbath is meant to be kept and it's meant to be observed ON SATURDAY not for legalistic reasons, but out of a love and reverence for God and his Commandments. It's like date night with God and it's by far my favorite day of the week!
So what's a girl to do? My struggle is that God hasn't made it clear without a shadow of a doubt that I should be Baptized here. But does He ever? I mean, he's made Jesus VERY clear to me. He's made the infallibility of Scripture a fact in my mind. Try and tell me otherwise!! But this, while he points out special things about the Adventist church and has shown me that they really hold the Bible in such high regard, God hasn't made so crystal clear that I'd bet my life on it the way I'd bet my life on the deity of Christ. So again, I don't ask for opinions today. I just want your prayers because what I'm really looking for is God's opinion. Could the church who strives to live a holy life, obeying the Commandments of God, and dedicating their physical bodies, and spiritual bodies for God's purpose be wrong for this very normal chick?
Loving Father, show me what you'd have me do. I want to join the church that you feel I will best glorify you in. I want to join the church that teaches from your Word sound doctrine. I pray with all my heart that you will lead me into the right direction. I want to joyfully be baptized into a church. I do not want to move forward with any doubt, instead, I want to go with all my heart in celebration of my commitment to You. Show me what you would have me do. I love you, Lord. And I want to serve you with all that I have, and all that I am. Show me how to best do so. In Jesus name, Amen.
Don't forget to pray for me! I don't ask for much do I?
19 Comments
Tony York September 02, 2010
You have been prayed for… and just for edification purposes -> Romans 12:1-2
I know you don’t want opinions or advice, but are you open to a question?
I don’t know much about adventists so I don’t have a lot of opinions about them. I just have one question - Who is Ellen G White and how does she fit into scripture?
Dave VT September 02, 2010
I include you in my Rosary every morning.
Jessica September 02, 2010
That’s a great question. And something I have struggled with myself. When I first read about the church believing in the prophetic gifts attributed to Ellen White, my first reaction was to run like heck. However, God has made it very clear to me that some will have this Spiritual gift (Acts 2:17) so I can’t disregard everyone claiming to have it, nor do I believe He wants me to, but instead, I believe God asks that I test all things. (1 Thess 5:20-21)
So, with that being said, here’s how I’ve decided to handle it since- make no mistake, that whole Ellen White and her inspired writings thing is not something I take lightly AT ALL as I think you can imagine…. as of today, I have no interest in Ellen White or what she has to say. I have interest in the Bible as my ONLY source of inspiration and have been assured that I will never have to read a word of her writings, as the Bible is their ultimate source of inspiration and the basis of what they test her writings with. That’s not to say that one day I may start looking into her claims of prophecy in an attempt to “test all things” (if she really was indeed inspired by God-I guess that’s something I’d be interested in hearing more about) but I won’t do so until I have a profound understanding of Scripture as I don’t want to be influenced from anything other than the Bible.
Jessica September 02, 2010
Thank you, Dave. I really appreciate your prayers more than I can say.
When I told Joe a few days ago that I thought about getting baptized into the Adventist church he said, “So does this mean you no longer like Dave?” Haha! Obviously Dave, I think you know that’s not what it means at all:) So keep me on that rosary rotation!!!
Tony York September 02, 2010
I think those are great precautions to take and we have teachings in the bible to test the prophets to see if they are of God or not.
A quick search of the Adventists teachings from their website brings up other questions like their stance on hell.. doesn’t seem that they believe in it - is that the case? And the whole doctrine on 1844 seems to be ‘off’ and how they have explained the purpose of Christ’s work in heaven at this point - have you looked into these teachings? I am not sure where they come from.
Please don’t feel that I am trying to rain on your parade - I am inquisitive by nature and these things stick out at me and make me core curious since I have not looked into their faith before.
Jessica September 02, 2010
Hi Tony,
No raining, don’t you worry your pretty little self about that! I can’t get all shy about doctrine now;-) These are really long complex things that I am just beginning to investigate fully myself. I will certainly post articles in the coming weeks about the doctrine. I’m actually glad you asked, because when I write things out, it always seems to help me learn.
Virginia Collins September 02, 2010
Dear Jessica, This is so thrilling to me to see you searching for the church that Jesus would have you join.
Father in heaven, I want to join Jessica in prayer for her as she searches for the church that Jesus would go to if He were still on this earth. May she keep searching Your Holy Word. Show her that You are “the way, the truth and the life.” John 14:6. Show me daily how to continue to pray for her. Thank You in Jesus’ blessed and holy Name. Amen!
Dave VT September 02, 2010
It occurred to me during the day that we had addressed the Saturday Sabbath question in a previous Catholic Friday and it further occurred to me that I could not recall what the posts commenting on the issue had been. I became curious that maybe you had said something about this issue and maybe I had missed it. So I went back and was surprised to see that you had made no comments about this issue that you apparently feel strongly about.
The key passages of the post are:
In Colossians 2:14-16, Paul mentions the Sabbath by name, stating that Christ has, “canceled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands . . . Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.” Paul thus states that the whole Jewish festival calendar, Sabbath days included, is not binding on Christians. This is not to say that Christ cancelled the 10 Commandments, He most certainly did not. We still keep holy the Sabbath day; it’s just on a different day. Just like we all still have only 1 God of the first Commandment, but now understand him as a trinity.
If we have a New Covenant, and a new Sabbath, what day is it? We know from our Tradition the answer is Sunday and we see this confirmed in multiple New Testament texts. For example, when Paul was in Troas, he says “we stayed for seven days” and he specifically singles out Sunday as the day on which Mass was celebrated. “On the first day of the week . . . we were gathered together to break bread” (Acts 20:7).
In considering your decision I know that you are praying and studying very intently. Obviously, you should consider the passages cited above. I’m pretty sure you were on vacation the week that was posted. Is there any meaning in that coincidence? From a Catholic perspective, Catholic doctrine teaches that for a private revelation to be valid it must be consistent with all of scripture. As always, my prayers are with you.
Jessica September 02, 2010
Hi Dave,
Thank you for bringing this up. I’ll be completely honest, this decision is quite heart wrenching for me. I know the stigma that the Adventist church has and as I mentioned, I don’t want to be “outside the norm” but I can’t help but feel that the Spirit is leading me here. I want nothing more than an honest, open relationship with Jesus and I just want to know what he’d have me do. I would never ignore anything in Scripture. And these verses have been the topic of much of my research these past couple months. I also wished the post on the Sabbath was’nt while I was on vacation, and was hoping a conversation would have started with someone else so when I came back I could jump in. But it didn’t, probably because no one other than Seventh day Baptists and Adventists believe the Sabbath is still part of God’s Holy law. But I believe it is. So let us reason together…..
Dave VT September 02, 2010
Many times I have cited the Church Fathers. The first Christians, the men that walked with and learned from the Apostles.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Sabbath_or_Sunday.asp
Amanda September 02, 2010
Dear Jess:
Thanks for seeking of Jesus’ will. He will show you an awesome sign pointing you in the right direction as you are seeking his will. I pray He will give you total peace in your heart about your decision. That is when you know it is truly Him talking and not you.
Have you visited http://www.churchofthehighlands.com yet?
They are a rapidly growing, spirit-filled church that seeks Jesus’ will entirely. I recommend that you visit it and you can even watch the services online.
God bless!
~Amanda
Jessica September 02, 2010
Okay, this is a lot of work, so bare with me I may go slow…as always I appreciate your support as I wrestle with some of these things while trying to learn the truth.
Tell me what you think. And of course I expect you to talk me out of something if I don’t see it right:)
Here are the verses in context: Colassians 2:14-17
4Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Paul is letting the Jews who had recently converted to Christianity know without a shadow of a doubt that Christ was sufficient enough for salvation. They were still trying to continue on with many of their ceremonial laws, holy and feast days, food and drink offerings and the like but Paul was telling them that Christ was all they needed to get into right relationship with the Father.
Each of these things mentioned had only pointed forward to the Messiah, therefore no longer necessary. They were “shadows” and types of the coming of Christ. I guess the reason why I see it this way is that the Sabbath was never something that pointed forward to the Christ. God rested on the 7th day from creation, and blessed it, so even in the garden there was a 7th day Sabbath. So was this something that pointed forward to Christ? If so, then I have to re-consider predestination because sin hadn’t even entered the world yet so to place a type in Genesis pointing forward to Christ’s sacrifice is kinda jumping the gun it feels like.
These are the ceremonial system of laws which were all nailed to the cross. Does this seem ridiculous to think?
I mean, it also references that some esteem one day more important than another. They were former Jews who would know that the Sabbath wasn’t a matter of opinion, it was God’s law. Think about how much they debated over circumcision, if God was talking to them about getting rid of the 4th Commandment, I think we’d see something a bit more direct here, wouldn’t we?
Dave VT September 02, 2010
Respectfully, I have to disagree.
On “pointing forward to Christ” this logic fails on 2 points. First, Paul clearly treats all 5 things equally. He says all 5 things no longer apply. This is exactly consistent with what happening. The Jews were not just insisting on circumcision, they were insisting on all the old laws to apply, including worship on the Saturday. Paul is saying no all these things have are ended. This does not mean Paul “got rid of the 4th commandment”. The commandment has 2 parts: the actual day of the week and a day of rest and respect for God. The day of the week moves b/c Christ was resurrected on a Sunday. Which raises point two: the Sabbath can be seen as prefiguring Christ b/c quite simply he was in the tomb on Saturday. Now, one could say, “see even Jesus rested in the tomb on Saturday”. True, but why? For absolute proof that he had died and of true resurrection. One of the reasons we can know that Jesus’ body was not stolen from the tomb is b/c he was in the tomb on a Saturday. Devout Jews couldn’t have done the “work” of stealing the body. Christ dies Friday afternoon, is rushed to the tomb, and rises first thing Sunday. It’s one of pieces of evidence God has given us. Notice also, the last day of the old covenant a Saturday. the First day of the New Covenant, a Sunday. Perfect symmetry as only God can create.
As to, “looking for something more direct”. Why? I know the 7th days believe in the Trinity. Where is that directly stated in the bible. After all, the Trinity “get rid of” the 1st Commandment that there is only 1 God. How come we need direct evidence to reinterpret the 3rd commandment but not the 1st. The fact is sabbath celebrated on Sunday does not get rid of the 3rd commandment it just changes our understanding of it, just as the Trinity changes our understanding of the first.
I want to share something with you that you may or may not believe, I read the bible every morning and today, I read the book of Colossians, from which the passage discussed above. Indeed, Paul was trying to correct errors that were being taught but they were not, strictly speaking, error of Jews trying to enforce the old law. From the editors introduction in my bible, “Problems had arisen, brought on by teachers who emphasized Christ’s relation to the universe. Their teaching stressed angels which were connected to with ascetical powers cultic practices….”. Now let us look at what the next line says:
18: Let no one disqualify you, delighting in self-abasement and worship of angels, taking his stand on visions, inflated without reason by his fleshy mind ....
I immediately noticed this passage b/c it called to mind the Jehovah’s Witness, our discussions about Michael and your post from a week or so ago. What does it mean?
“taking his stand on visions” - visions are not to be the basis of taking stands - i.e., theology or teaching
“inflated without reason by his fleshy mind” - image you receive what you think is a vision, would it be easy to slip into pride, a feeling you had been chosen by God. Visions can easily be inflated beyond their purpose.
Contrast, with the Catholic understanding of visions we discussed 2 weeks ago w/ Veronica. There is only one Jesus, one truth. Visions serve the one truth. Visions can call for the truth to be explored or emphasized in new ways but they cannot alter what was previously established as true. In Acts, Paul said the met on first day of the week. All the first Christians, see the link I previously posted, talk about Sunday worship and they are unequivocal and emphatic:
Ignatius of Antioch
“[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death” (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).
Justin Martyr
“But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead” (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).
Scott September 03, 2010
Deuteronomy 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Deuteronomy 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
Deuteronomy 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Jessica September 03, 2010
Dave-
I was reading through Acts today and looking at Acts 20:7. I noticed that this is the only reference in the entire book of Acts to worship on Sunday, AND it appears that the worship isn’t even Sunday, it’s Saturday night. Several versions on the Bible even translate it that way.
But all the other references are to Saturday worship. Acts, 13:4, 44, Acts 16:13, Acts 17:2, 18:4)
And it says that Paul was meeting with them even past midnight because he was traveling the next day. Don’t you think if Sunday was sacred Paul wouldn’t have traveled then?
I realize however, that Saturday night isn’t actually the Sabbath so this doesn’t prove that they were meeting on Sabbath, just to me that Sunday may not be the new sacred day, otherwise, why was Paul traveling and leaving on the Lord’s day?
Jessica September 03, 2010
Hi Amanda,
Thank you SO much for your comment. I clicked on the link but it looks like the church is in Alabama. Are there Richmond church’s I’d be able to attend do you know? I didn’t see it on the site.
Dave VT September 03, 2010
Because the focus of the Sabbath changed from rest from work to celebration of the resurection via the Mass.
Bud November 16, 2010
Proverbs 2:1-5. John 14:13-18; 2 John:6 note this is the only verse that does not state, Love is… but this is Love…
Jessica December 10, 2010
Hi Bud!
Thanks for joining the conversation. I know you wrote a few weeks ago. Not sure how I missed it but wanted to say hello.
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